Tuesday, February 22, 2011

Thodore Von Laue's "The World Revolution of Westernization"

Please comment below about the article. You may respond to others, but to earn your grade, you must significantly contribute to the discussion and be responsive to one of the following prompts from the reading:

Who are the "Westernized non-Western intelligensia"?
What is their problem?

What does Laue mean when he says that "as a result of their Westernization they became anti-Western nationalists?"
How could Westernization make people anti-Western?

Evaluate the statement "To do just the opposite is also a form of imitation." in the context of the article. Is von Laue describing some paradoxical aspect of human nature, or are these conflicts the product of colonialism?

36 comments:

  1. Zhi 6th
    1. The "Westernized non-Western intelligensia" were a new category of cultural half-breeds who studied in western schools. Their problem was that even though these people were educated, they still strove for "purpose, identity, and recognition". This along with the problem of their skin color, created many difficulties.
    2. The quote "as a result of their Westernization they became anti-Western nationalists" means that the teachings the Westerners taught about the ideals of freedom and self-determination caused non-Western intellectuals to become anti-Western nationalists. Westernization can make people anti-Western because the people were educated based on democracy, giving them freedom of mind and soul, thus making them protest the Western system.
    3.The quote "To do just the opposite is also a form of imitation" is the paradoxical aspect of human nature because everything in this world has an opposite. For example, the contradiction of Western and anti-Western is similar to the yin-yang in Chinese culture. Even though they are both opposites, they both are connected and cannot change without the other being affected. This is the way of human nature.

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  2. {{Moriah 6th}}
    2.
    In response to Zhi, the mere education of the natives wouldn't prompt them to protest the Western system. Their education gave the natives the democratic ideas that the West was built upon. These natives were shown that in the past peasants/the working class peoples revolted against their oppressive governments and have these revolts--the natives wanted the same for their own countries. They wanted individual rights and liberties too.

    So to explain the quote, "as a result of their Westernization they became anti-Western nationalists"...
    von Laue was trying to say that the colonizing governments, through their process of ruling their new territory and importing their own western culture in an attempt to "civilize" their subjects, unintentionally created anti-Western nationalists.
    Basically these natives saw how good their lives could be if they weren't repressed by a different culture.

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  3. 1)"Westernized non-western intelligensia" were the people in other cultures who were priviledged enough to be sent to a western school to learn. This would be a problem because they would have two conflicting cultures, and would be having to choose between them.
    2)Laue's quote tells us that when the people came back from their learning, they had been fed this culture that had repeatedly put down other cultures, even the origin cultures of the students. When they got back from their education, they used that strategy to put up thier cultures, and put down others, especially the West's.
    3)The German wag's quote is an example of human nature, as people would like the culture they were in, but their own roots in a seperate culture would drag them into a love/hate relationship. On one hand, they liked the west, and all the shiny new things it had, but their true loyalty lay to the culture that they had been born into and raised in.

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  4. (Katarina from 2nd)

    I feel that the 'anti-western' part of anti-western Westerners has been very well explained, but the reasons for them becoming Westerners has not. While, yes, they were attracted to the ideas of freedom and democracy, and that was a large part of it, the Westerners brought other beneficial elements to the natives' society, such as increased medical supplies, education, and general profits. These things could not and should not be forgotten, and so the natives were torn between two equal forces of gratitude and disapproval.

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  5. 1. non-Western intelligentsia were native peoples who were given western education, who formed a new class in the colonies. Their problem: despite their education and intelligence, they lived in a place were skin color figured in your job qualifications.
    2. With Western educations the non-Western intelligentsia got taught about the librall and socialist call for freedom of all men. They were also able to see past the 'humanitarian' benifits that the West brought to their lands, and the cost of the West's involvment in their ecconomies.
    3. The way the West treated their colonies- especially sience they educated the people in their own revolutionary thoughts- made revoloution almost inevitable. Think they West was taking advantage of the colonie's economies, not giving the natives social equallity, and on top of that, were educating people about how everyone needs to be free, even if it ment spilling blood over it. The europeans realy created their own perfect storm revolution wise.

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  6. Vivian 2nd
    Non western intellectuals were usually colonized people who were taught in schools established by their colonizers(typically western) so thus, western ideals. The problem and reason for them being westernized anti westerns, is that they are taught in these western schools that revolution, though not very well liked, is fairly tolerated. A tiny spark of dissent in a colony and it is shot down ruthlessly and this raises the question within the colonized is" Why is it alright to revolt in the western world but not here?". The problem is that they're(the western taught non westerners)adressing a hypocrisy and way of life for the colonizers and they like the fact that revolution is tolerated but don't like that because they are "inferior", none of these rights or privelages(of revolution) apply to them, thus casuing them to be educated in western ways but being anti western because the colonizers treat them like dirt with no right to revolution.
    To oppose something you must first have a basis to become opposed to. So yes, to be opposite you must first imitate because you cannot be opposed to nothing. What a mouthful.

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  7. Emily 6th

    2. The "Westernized non-Western intelligensia" were the natives living in European colonies that were educated in the Western fashion. With the new Western ideas and the continuing effects of the native culture, this created a half-breed, as Zhi said. This new class strove to be like Westerners "in taste, in opinion, in morals, and intellect," but were still held back by their color. Their problem came from this physical barrier that prevented them from being equal to the Europeans. The Westerns influence in these colonies brought many benefits (medicine, improved goods, ideas of freedom, etc.), but, aspects from their own cultures still had a prominent effect on the lives of these people. This then led to anti-Westernization nationalists.

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  8. The Westernized non western intelligensia were people of other cultures who were able to go to a western school. When they stareted to go to these schools it caused problems because they were then put in-between two different cultures that didn't go together,this then made them have to have to make a choice between the two cultures.

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  9. Katie from 6th-

    3. I think Zhi was close in saying that the quote describes a part of human nature, but I think that the quote means more than 2 opposites that coincide-- I think its more like copying someone is the same as trying not to copy someone, because both times you are focusing on the same thing- whatever you are copying or not copying. This happened with the natives- they were so focused on doing exactly the opposite of what the westerners were doing, that they ended up copying them in cultural prejudice.

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  11. Sarah 5th-
    The statement "To do just the opposite is also a form of imitation" is describing the conflicts of westernization. As the "Westernized non-Westerners" gained education, they began rebelling against the diminishing of their native cultures and countries. However, they were using their Western education to do this. So even though they were doing "the opposite," they were still imitating the West by using their Western-gained education.

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  12. Andrew E - 2nd

    In response to the second question.

    In the article it states that the non-Western intellectuals wanted to obtain a lot of Western ideas and tried to obtain the basic philosophy of all Western states - freedom and self-determination. The Western colonizers deprived them of these rights and subjugated them to doing what they needed them to do. By doing this, the Westerners were becoming anit-Western nationalists and going against the basic priciples that they based all their revolutions on. The rights that they gained for themselves, they took from others.

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  13. Annie from 2nd
    1) The Westernized non-Western intelligentsia was a new group formed from the indigenous people who were educated in Western skills. Their problem was they did not fit into either group: the Westerners nor the indigenous. Although well-educated, they could not find a place in society or a duty to fulfill.
    2) The quote "as a result of their Westernization they became anti-Western nationalists" means that by educating the indigenous people, they learned to think for themselves and began to strive for freedom. The forceful means of making the indigenous civilized made them feel suppressed and anti-Western.
    3) The conflicts are products of colonialism. When the Westerners came into the natives’ land and took advantage of them, the natives felt dominated. Due to Westerners treating the natives poorly, the natives fought back.

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  14. Katie Smith- 5th period.

    1)The "Westernized non-Western intelligensia" were people European Colonies who held the opportunity to study in the prestigious European universities and societies. The problem with this is that the Westernized non-Western intelligensia would be ripped from their home culture and placed in a different one, causing them both to experience culture shock and have to eventually choose one culture or the other. This also created a "half-breed" which were people who lived fully in western society, but were held inferior because of their skin color, causing them to be placed in a "no-man's-land in between."

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  15. 1. The "Westernized non-Western intelligensia" were foreign people fortunate enough to be educated in western schools.They were a fix of foreign origin and western knowledge.Their problems were that they were accepted by neither their own people, or the western peoples. They were criticized from both sides and had no place to call their own. They were a talented and industrious group that sided with the socialists for a plea of social equality.

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  16. Hannah 5th
    In Response to Question 2
    The author means from his quote that the more the people tried to Westernize themselves, the more they became educated of freedom and self-determination. When they saw these qualities they began to abject copying Western ways. The West wanted them to keep their ways and not wander away from their ways, however. By the West almost controlling other countries into following them, other country strove towards freedom.

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  17. Ben 6th
    1) The Westernized Non-Western intelligentisia were children of the natives that had a western education. They were a whole different culture because they were native by birth, but lived in a westernized environment. They were different from Western people so they had difficulties finding jobs and fitting in.

    2) The quote means that the people that were westernized began to want to not have the west forced upon them. They began to feel suppressed and anti-Western.

    3) If you are the exact opposite of something, this means that you have put some thought into how that something is done and in this way, you are imitating it. Even though what you are doing may be total opposite to something, it is still the center of your attention because you are trying to contradict everything that it does.

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  18. Chris and Clark 6th

    The Westernized non-Western intelligentsia were people fortunate enough to be able to get more advanced schooling in less advanced areas. Their involvement in changing their native countries' came straight from their education they received from all of their Western schooling. I think that this makes the indigenous people very similar to the Westerners that enhanced their practices.

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  19. 1) The "Westernized Non-Western intelligentisia" were peoples who had a western education. They often had difficulty in both cultures, because they had been raised on Western ideals but were native by birth. Often, the color of their skin led them to be persecuted in western society.

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  20. Elizabeth Coggeshall from 2nd
    1. Westernized non-Western intelligensia, were elite intellectuals of societies outside of the European area, mostly in Africa and Asia. These were people who studied Western ideals. The main conflict they had was not blending in with the western society because of their different culture, also they live in totally different areas of the world.

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  21. Keltie H 6th
    2)
    "as a result of their Westernization they became anti-Western nationalists?"
    When western people settled these people they taught them, showed them advanced goods, and respected them when they left their country. So this led them to think, if i am like a westerner, why dont i have the freedom of a westerner? This led to revolts and freedom from the west. So in response to katerina i think that although the westerners did bring very benefical products and ideas to the west, and they were grateful, they probably disaprove of the way they recieved these ideas. They were manipulated until they realized they have a voice in what goes on in their country.
    This is also simular to the situation in Libya and Eygpt. The people have been shown these ideas of revolution (tunisia) and realized they could have their own freedom and a better life.

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  22. 1) Westernized non-western intelligentisia were people generally of the indiginous population who recieved a Western-style upbringing and/or education, resulting in a mixed-culture specimen. Because these cultures were generally opposed to each other, the Intelligentisia were trolled pretty badly by one culture or the other, depending on how they expressed their alleigences.

    -IAN FOALEEEEEEEE (fifth period (fo sho))

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  23. Erin 2nd
    1) The "Westernized non-Western intelligensia" were the people who had been highly educated outside the populated and educated Europe. They came and were raised by their "tribes", but educated by outsiders. Their problem was that they were having a kind of identity crisis, not knowing who to trust, and where they belong. Its like choosing between who you are, or what you can become. They could be at home, but having all this knowledge wasted, or trying to make it outside their home, but struggling.

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  24. Mallory Sherer 5th

    In response to #3 (the quote), the quote is suggesting that no matter what the change to culture caused by the colonies was, there would always be indigenous people opposed to it. There will always be people trying to do the opposite of any changes going on. Also, doing the opposite is immitation because in order to do the opposite of something, you have to fully understand it, figure out how to immitate it, then do the opposite of that.

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  25. Bhaanu Kaul - 5th

    1) The "Westernized non-Western intelligensia" were a group of people in an indigenous group who were formally educated in western ways. These people however, did not fit into either their indigenous group or the western group, thus making it difficult for them to find their place in society. Also these people, who were fond of western culture, began to change their own peoples culture. For example African women started to cover themselves more, and many Chinese men adopted western clothing. Also the text states that "...tried to become like Westerners 'in taste, in opinion, in morals, and intellect.'"

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  26. Who are the "Westernized non-Western intelligensia"?
    What is their problem?
    From Grace Schwarz 2nd period
    These were the people who grew up in a culture that was "undiscovered" by the west (aka Europe) and not yet colonized, or resisting to colonization, yet discovered/colonized soon after this generation's birth. These were the people that decided to get smart and become educated in the western way, as to advance their own country. They ended up having issues becasue neither half of their lives fully accepted them.The indigenous half of their life refused them becasue these people had diffused their cultural identity to be approved by the west. The West didn't accept them due to race, or simply (when in the colony) that the West was superior regardless.

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  27. Phillip Reid - 2nd

    2)The ideals and teaching of the Westerners gave the indigenous population the knowledge of democracy, equality and political representation. These Westernized non-Westerners learned these ideals and realized the hypocrisy of the Wests exportation of these ideals to their colonies. Because the West boasted of these things, yet did not actually have them at all in their governing of the colonies, the Westernized non-Westerners began to hate the West. The Westernization caused them to be anti-Western. With these new ideals in their minds, they began to fight for the rights of their fellow natives. This produced a nationalism of the indigenous natives of the colonies against the imperialism of their mother countries.

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  28. Adrian from 5th

    2) The non-western people found the hypocrisy of the western "mission," and realized that although they are like the westerners they will still be looked at as "natives." This led the intelligensia to see the western ideals as a jusification of their protest for equality. Their education in the western ways of equality, liberty and freedom led them to the idea of their non-western nationalism.

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  29. Arman from 2nd

    1. Mostly in Africa and Asia, westernized non-Western intelligensia, were intellectuals (usually elite) of societies outside of the European area. These were people who studied Western ideals.

    2) The quote "as a result of their Westernization they became anti-Western nationalists" means that the indigenous people learned to think for themselves and began to desire/work towards freedom by educating them. The forceful means of making the indigenous civilized made them feel suppressed and anti-Western.

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  30. the "westernized non-western intellegista" turned their western teachings and lessons into something productive for them. those days it was almost in a way cool to be westernized, and the intellectuals imitated westernized principles by become nationalists and doing just the opposite as a form of copying. it was basically a love-hate kind of thing for this group of people.

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  31. Jordan de 2nd

    1. The "Westernized non-Western intelligensia" is exactly what it sounds like; people who were educated by the westerners but were not from europe, themselves.These people usually were their cultures(mostly africa and asia) elites who when the europeans took over, started to teach so that they could have "indirect rule".
    Their dilema was that as non-europeans but westernized, they were segregated from both groups as a middle man. They could relate with both(which made transactions easier) but were too different from both groups to ever really fit in or go much higher than peacekeeper.

    2. Once the people were westernized they could easily become anti western. While they might of learned the ways of the europeans, they still lacked the nationalistic feel towards the "mother" country because they werent born or raised from their. Along with that, they could see the situation from a more unbiased view. They could understand the motives of the europeans but also had the backround of knowing exactly what they cause because of those motives. They see how horrid the europeans are treating their people and nooo likey.

    3. Human nature always produces sharks and sheeps. On one hand you have the people who blindly follow what is perceived as right. On the other you have people who fight back against the bonds given to them no matter the circumstances. But for sharks to oppose anything their first has to be an opposition. You cant fight what isent there. And in a rather abstact way, opposing something is a form of immitation; just to immitate the opposite of the subject.

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  32. Dusheena 2nd

    The "Westernized non-Western intelligentsia" were the people that were indigenous to the regions where the Europeans had colonized. Because of the colonization they were being forced to follow the cultures/policies of the Europeans and they did not enjoy this. They were given this name because they were being educated in the west. As it was said in the document "Product of one culture, educated in another." This was a problem for these people because they basically had to choose between the 2 cultures.

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  33. Keala 2nd
    Going off of what JT and dusheena said , the "Westernized non-Western intelligentsia" were native people of the colonies that the Europeans colonized that went to universities or schools in Europe or in the colonies and were taught by westerners.THeir problem was that their people did not see them as their kind because they were kind of becoming a westener ,"Their protests ,incidentally ,were hardly ever turned against past humanities commited by their own kind" yet the westerners definitly did not view them as equals.

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  35. What does Laue mean when he says that "as a result of their Westernization they became anti-Western nationalists?"
    How could Westernization make people anti-Western?
    -In addition to Keltie's thoughts, "if i am like a westerner, why don't i have the freedom of a westerner?", I would like to add that not only was that a factor but after seeing the ways of how western citizens conducted themselves in relation to equality and humanitarianism they then looked at their own cultures and took what they believed as positive qualities from both nations. As a result they not only rebelled against inequality but also against previous injustices they found in their own culture. However due to their upbringing in the primary culture more faults were found with the new rulers imposing only the side of heir culture that would benefit them. In response to Katerina ,although the westerners did bring very useful products and ideas from the west, the scale of benefit was tipped towards the western side. Natives benefited but from the European perspective it was not by much.!!! Nick G 2nd period!!!

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  36. David 5th
    The "intelligentsia" were people from an indigenous culture who go to a western nation for education. These people brought influences from their previous cultures and merged it with their own. This caused a problem when they fit in neither their original culture nor the western culture. However some cultures slowly changed themselves to fit the new blend of the west and indigenous cultures.

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